Lex Fridman interviewed John Danaher on his show recently.
This is an excerpt from around the 52 minute mark:
Fridman:
Is there something to be said about the flip side of that, which is, um, when you’re training with people at the same skill level, being okay losing to them?
Danaher:
Yes. You have to see training for what it is. Training is about skill development, not about winning or losing. You’ve got to, you’ve got to understand that you don’t need to win every battle. You only need to win the battles that count, and the battles that count are in the world championship finals. Okay. That’s the one that counts. Think about that win. Okay. That’s the one you’re going to be remembered for. You’re not going to be remembered for the battle you lost on Tuesday afternoon at 3:00 PM and some nameless gym with some guy that no one cares about.
No one’s going to remember that. You’re going to be remembered for your peak performances, not your everyday performances. Focus your everyday performances on skill development so that your peak performances you can focus on winning.
Fridman:
You know, I just, this is not a therapy session, but if I could just be…
Danaher:
Every session is a therapy session.
Fridman:
There is still an ape thing in there.
Danaher:
Of course, you think I don’t feel it. You think everyone in the room doesn’t feel it .
Fridman:
Because for example, you haven’t ever seen me roll. Uh, you know, when there’s people, you know, I I’ve seen the look in people’s eyes when they see me train and they, I could see maybe it’s me projecting, but they think, I thought you were supposed to be good, I thought you were supposed to a black belt. Like, that look, they’re like…
Danaher:
I’m going to give you some therapy.
Do you know how many people have come up to me, over the years who have visited the training halls that I work in, and they come up to me and go, man, I rolled with Garry Tonon. I did really well with him, like, like really well, really well. I’m like, oh, that’s very, very good, very impressive. And then I see them talking to their friends and like, man, I tapped out Garry Tonon.
And I’m sitting there. Yeah, and you can see that they’re just like, Whoa, dude, I I’m I’m way better than I thought I was. Garry Tonon, all of my students, um, I push them in a direction of, of giving up bad positions so that they practice working, getting out of critical situations. It’s a huge part of our training program. But Garry Tonon takes it to a level that just no one else even gets close.
It’s it’s just amazing. Like he will put himself in impossible situations where it’s a fully locked strangle, a hundred percent on with both his arms behind his back. And he’ll try to work out from there. Yeah. And seven times out of 10, he does, but three times out of 10, he gets caught. He, uh, I’m a huge advocate of handicap training where you handicap yourself to work on skills.
He’s took that to heart, to a level that few people I believe can match.
Fridman:
I just wonder what his psychology is like, because…
Danaher:
It goes back to what we talked about before, Lex. You have to understand it’s skill development. Don’t take it personally. Um, I understand, I hear where you’re coming from. We’ve all got what you called the ape reflex, where we want to be dominant. Okay. Yeah, we all do, right?
Fridman:
‘Cause there’s thousands of white belts out there that have tapped Garry Tonon and they’re walking around, they’re saying online…
Danaher:
I tapped Garry Tonon. Like, Garry Tonon’s, like one of the best in the world. So I’m one of the best in the world. And, um, uh, does Garry get upset about this?
No, of course not. Cause Garry knows that when it counts on stage, he’s going to be going a hundred percent with a set of skills that very few people can match. Um, he can go into an EBI overtime at the 205 pound weight division against an ADCC champion, starting in a full arm lock position, and effortlessly get out, with no problems, in seconds because he’s been in that situation 25,000 times with varying degrees of skill opponents. And there’s just no panic, no fear. He’s just doing what he’s done so many thousands of times. And, um, that’s a fine, fine example of a guy who didn’t give a damn what happened in the training room, but when it counted, on the stage in front of the cameras, it, it kicked in.
Fridman:
Yeah, he’s, he’s an incredible inspiration actually. Uh, he’s a practitioner of something you’ve recently talked quite a bit about, which is a, the power of escaping sort of bad positions. Uh, I think you’ve talked about it, which is really interesting framing is, uh, escaping bad positions is one of the best ways, if not the best way to demonstrate dominance psychologically over your opponent.
The full episode can be found at https://lexfridman.com/john-danaher/ (audio) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktuw6Ow4sd0 (video).